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	<title>Comments on: Death and American Spectacles, take three</title>
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	<description>Or, "If you stole my maize, I pull your teeth."</description>
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		<title>By: wayneandwax.com &#187; Talib Qawwali</title>
		<link>http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/death-and-american-spectacles-take-three/#comment-682</link>
		<dc:creator>wayneandwax.com &#187; Talib Qawwali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/?p=438#comment-682</guid>
		<description>[...] Death and American Spectacles, take three « zunguzungu great post (as usual) over @ zunguzungu, moving from palin (implicitly) on the bush doctrine, to Abdul JonMohamed on Richard Wright, to DFW on kafka, to some sudanese kid on the US killing machine, to this kicker of a conclusion: &quot;And it makes me imbue this upcoming election with a symbolism that raises the stakes so far above and beyond their already frighteningly high level that it makes me wonder if the gods are just fucking with us. Seriously, are we living in a didactic morality play? Are we _really_ presented with the choice between a person whose identity is defined by his time as a bomber in an American war of imperial aggression and a guy with a “Muslim” name who wears centuries of America’s violent racial oppression on his skin? Are you fucking serious?&quot; (tags: election08 blogpost politricks kafka academic violence US critique) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Death and American Spectacles, take three « zunguzungu great post (as usual) over @ zunguzungu, moving from palin (implicitly) on the bush doctrine, to Abdul JonMohamed on Richard Wright, to DFW on kafka, to some sudanese kid on the US killing machine, to this kicker of a conclusion: &quot;And it makes me imbue this upcoming election with a symbolism that raises the stakes so far above and beyond their already frighteningly high level that it makes me wonder if the gods are just fucking with us. Seriously, are we living in a didactic morality play? Are we _really_ presented with the choice between a person whose identity is defined by his time as a bomber in an American war of imperial aggression and a guy with a “Muslim” name who wears centuries of America’s violent racial oppression on his skin? Are you fucking serious?&quot; (tags: election08 blogpost politricks kafka academic violence US critique) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chapati Mystery &#187; Zungu Notes</title>
		<link>http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/death-and-american-spectacles-take-three/#comment-675</link>
		<dc:creator>Chapati Mystery &#187; Zungu Notes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/?p=438#comment-675</guid>
		<description>[...] Bush Doctrine is about lynching, Lynching, Shock &amp; Awe and other violent spectacles, Death and American Spectacles, Take three [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bush Doctrine is about lynching, Lynching, Shock &#38; Awe and other violent spectacles, Death and American Spectacles, Take three [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sepoy</title>
		<link>http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/death-and-american-spectacles-take-three/#comment-671</link>
		<dc:creator>sepoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/?p=438#comment-671</guid>
		<description>Somehow, I just feel the urge to giggle whenever I read, &quot;Obama is the continuation of this or that &#039;insert horrible pseudo, neo or plain old -ism&#039;&quot;. And after that giggling, I stop and go on with my life. 

But, I think you are dead-on in these series of posts (bravo), esp. that last bit. There is just a breath between Vietnam and Gulf War I &amp; II. And in that breath, we have Obama. The next election, and the one after, and the ten after, will all be fought by the warriors of Iraq War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow, I just feel the urge to giggle whenever I read, &#8220;Obama is the continuation of this or that &#8216;insert horrible pseudo, neo or plain old -ism&#8217;&#8221;. And after that giggling, I stop and go on with my life. </p>
<p>But, I think you are dead-on in these series of posts (bravo), esp. that last bit. There is just a breath between Vietnam and Gulf War I &amp; II. And in that breath, we have Obama. The next election, and the one after, and the ten after, will all be fought by the warriors of Iraq War.</p>
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		<title>By: zunguzungu</title>
		<link>http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/death-and-american-spectacles-take-three/#comment-667</link>
		<dc:creator>zunguzungu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/?p=438#comment-667</guid>
		<description>Hey Jasper, feel free to talk about modernity in general! With regard to your provocation, which is helping me clarify my thinking--so thanks--I think the key point to be made is that there is no single &quot;imperialism,&quot; there are many. Within American political culture there has long been a substantive split between racist liberals and racist conservatives, between the desire to emancipate the world and the desire to lynch it, and this dialectic plays out in lots of interesting and highly consequential ways. The blatant racisms of the abolitionists didn&#039;t mean that some good didn&#039;t come out of it, because they *did* hold beliefs that were incompatible with race-based chattel subjection (and that disagreement had profound consequences). So, when I say that the Bush doctrine is new, what I mean is that Bush represents the swing of the pendulum that brought us away from the progressive consensus that pretty much carried us from Teddy Roosevelt to Carter; I&#039;m thinking particularly of the ways that the &quot;realism&quot; of Kissinger and company (which treats foreign powers as human beings) gave way to the neo-con agenda, which treats them as speed bumps. In the short duree, it *is* new; only in the long duree of Am history is it clearly a return to past forms.

Having not yet read the Reed article, I think I&#039;m more optimistic than you about Obama&#039;s potential to be hugely better than McCain, though part of that is also a function of being very, very pessimistic about McCain. McCain has the potential to be a lot worse than Bush I think, and the difference between a good democrat and a bad republican is pretty stark (although maybe in the sort duree?) That said, the distinction I&#039;m drawing there between McCain and Obama is a symbolic one, which is why I feel like someone up there is rigging the game just to make the narratives more explicit. And, after all, symbols matter: while the policy differences are significant too--perhaps more significant--I&#039;m not willing to discount what the difference in personal narratives represents, and the importance the choice and the result will be as formative moments in future formations of &quot;American&quot; identity.

Wallerstein made the argument &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.binghamton.edu/fbc/228en.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; that while (as you&#039;ve said) Obama is just another democrat hiding center-right leanings under a populist message, the thing about him is the potential he has to galvanize a certain section of the quasi-left that is more significantly at odds with the way things are going these days, and that actually do have the potential ability to exert pressure on the powers that be. As he puts it: &quot;Change is indeed possible, and potentially a very positive change. It all depends far less on Obama than on the rest of us. But Obama might, only might, give us the space in which the &quot;we&quot; of &quot;yes, we can&quot; can push him and the United States.&quot;  I&#039;m more or less in agreement with that; the whole point of this series of postings on &quot;spectacle&quot; is to recognize the power they have, and Obama is a kind of spectacle in his own right. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jasper, feel free to talk about modernity in general! With regard to your provocation, which is helping me clarify my thinking&#8211;so thanks&#8211;I think the key point to be made is that there is no single &#8220;imperialism,&#8221; there are many. Within American political culture there has long been a substantive split between racist liberals and racist conservatives, between the desire to emancipate the world and the desire to lynch it, and this dialectic plays out in lots of interesting and highly consequential ways. The blatant racisms of the abolitionists didn&#8217;t mean that some good didn&#8217;t come out of it, because they *did* hold beliefs that were incompatible with race-based chattel subjection (and that disagreement had profound consequences). So, when I say that the Bush doctrine is new, what I mean is that Bush represents the swing of the pendulum that brought us away from the progressive consensus that pretty much carried us from Teddy Roosevelt to Carter; I&#8217;m thinking particularly of the ways that the &#8220;realism&#8221; of Kissinger and company (which treats foreign powers as human beings) gave way to the neo-con agenda, which treats them as speed bumps. In the short duree, it *is* new; only in the long duree of Am history is it clearly a return to past forms.</p>
<p>Having not yet read the Reed article, I think I&#8217;m more optimistic than you about Obama&#8217;s potential to be hugely better than McCain, though part of that is also a function of being very, very pessimistic about McCain. McCain has the potential to be a lot worse than Bush I think, and the difference between a good democrat and a bad republican is pretty stark (although maybe in the sort duree?) That said, the distinction I&#8217;m drawing there between McCain and Obama is a symbolic one, which is why I feel like someone up there is rigging the game just to make the narratives more explicit. And, after all, symbols matter: while the policy differences are significant too&#8211;perhaps more significant&#8211;I&#8217;m not willing to discount what the difference in personal narratives represents, and the importance the choice and the result will be as formative moments in future formations of &#8220;American&#8221; identity.</p>
<p>Wallerstein made the argument <a href="http://www.binghamton.edu/fbc/228en.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a> that while (as you&#8217;ve said) Obama is just another democrat hiding center-right leanings under a populist message, the thing about him is the potential he has to galvanize a certain section of the quasi-left that is more significantly at odds with the way things are going these days, and that actually do have the potential ability to exert pressure on the powers that be. As he puts it: &#8220;Change is indeed possible, and potentially a very positive change. It all depends far less on Obama than on the rest of us. But Obama might, only might, give us the space in which the &#8220;we&#8221; of &#8220;yes, we can&#8221; can push him and the United States.&#8221;  I&#8217;m more or less in agreement with that; the whole point of this series of postings on &#8220;spectacle&#8221; is to recognize the power they have, and Obama is a kind of spectacle in his own right.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasper</title>
		<link>http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/death-and-american-spectacles-take-three/#comment-666</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/?p=438#comment-666</guid>
		<description>These have been excellent posts, Aaron. I&#039;ve been meaning to respond to the post about Berman and modernity, but I couldn&#039;t really get my thoughts in any kind of shape and plus, seeing as I haven&#039;t read All that&#039;s Solid, I&#039;d be talking about theories of modernity in general. . . 

What&#039;s curious here to me here is that you want to talk about the Bush Doctrine as a qualitatively new political theory, and yet read it back through white supremacy and imperialism in general. What gives? I mean, as you yourself make clear, Bush &amp; Co. didn&#039;t invent pre-emption; they just gave it a new formalization. And this really undercuts the erstwhile starkness of the choice you think we have in front of us. The answer to your final question is a resounding &quot;no, unfortunately.&quot; The man with the Muslim name who wears the legacy of white supremacy on his skin supports U.S. imperialism, supports the doctrine of pre-emption with regard to Al Qaeda, and hasn&#039;t spoken word one that indicates he&#039;ll do anything to displace or unsettle the momentous institutional racism that exists in this country in the form of, say, the war on drugs, educational policy, etc., etc., etc. 

Adolph Reed&#039;s article on Obama clinches my thoughts on the thing rather well: 

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=697&amp;Itemid=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These have been excellent posts, Aaron. I&#8217;ve been meaning to respond to the post about Berman and modernity, but I couldn&#8217;t really get my thoughts in any kind of shape and plus, seeing as I haven&#8217;t read All that&#8217;s Solid, I&#8217;d be talking about theories of modernity in general. . . </p>
<p>What&#8217;s curious here to me here is that you want to talk about the Bush Doctrine as a qualitatively new political theory, and yet read it back through white supremacy and imperialism in general. What gives? I mean, as you yourself make clear, Bush &amp; Co. didn&#8217;t invent pre-emption; they just gave it a new formalization. And this really undercuts the erstwhile starkness of the choice you think we have in front of us. The answer to your final question is a resounding &#8220;no, unfortunately.&#8221; The man with the Muslim name who wears the legacy of white supremacy on his skin supports U.S. imperialism, supports the doctrine of pre-emption with regard to Al Qaeda, and hasn&#8217;t spoken word one that indicates he&#8217;ll do anything to displace or unsettle the momentous institutional racism that exists in this country in the form of, say, the war on drugs, educational policy, etc., etc., etc. </p>
<p>Adolph Reed&#8217;s article on Obama clinches my thoughts on the thing rather well: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=697&amp;Itemid=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=697&amp;Itemid=1</a></p>
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